c06.26.06_044_BLO_FLM_0070L

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Date:	Visitor's Name:	Comment:
06/26/06	Frank Degnan	In response to you story "What Today's Sportsman Division Should Look Like", I agree that a street stock style modified would be great to see on a dirt track. Here is an excerpt from an e-mail I sent you last year: "Is it possible to put a street stock body, found at nearly any track, onto a modified frame? The teams could keep the internal wing structure in tact because that's a piece that we as fans sitting in the stands don't really see, anyway. Maybe we could just drop a 467 into a street stock, throw some big wheels on it, and cut away part of the fenders to be able to see the headers? Your idea of providing a weight or a larger carburetor incentive for any street bodied modified is an excellent one (Bobby Gerhart used to run a carburetor at Reading while the others all ran injectors because he received bonus money for doing so). How about everything from the roof posts back must be street stock and the front could be all racing, much as it is now! At this point, I almost don't care what, just do SOMETHING to try to make modified racing as interesting and exciting as it once was!!!" Anyway, Joe, keep up the good fight!
06/26/06	Tom Tinsman	I couldn't agree with you more. I know it wouldn't be possible, but I would love to see a track full of old coupes, and sedans. Nextel Cup has the same problem. All the cars basically look alike, plus they are to aerodynamically sensitive. I liked Nascar better in the 70's, and 80's. Todays drivers are mostly nice guys but they could use a few guys like John Force to add a little personality to the sport. Bring back some of the innocence of the good old days.
06/27/06	Dave Freeman	I agree with the above comments...it would be great to see a modified type car with a recognizable body again. Maybe I am in the small minority with my opinion, but I think today's modifieds look like a chassis was run through a chicken shed (remember those!) and then given a great paint job. A car with the performance of a mod with a look new fans could relate to might help revise local racing....or at least help a little.
06/27/06	John	There was a time in racing that when someone mentioned a "quick change rearend", others thought they were talking about a driver change. nowadays if you show up at Syracuse with a quick change rearend, you might not make the show. It seems the old tried and true ford 9 inch rear with the right gear is the ticket. The fella that can mass produce fiberglass or punch press type aluminum coupe/coach bodies will be a very wealthy man, because he would be fulfilling the many wishes of the faithful old school race fan and drivers. You want to have a thriving racetrack? Charge 10.00 general admission for adults, kids 0 -18 get in free, midweek show 15.00. All food at the concession stands (fries, dogs, cheeseburgers, sausage) 1.00, yes that's right 1.00. You make your money on the volume, same as the admission, not by the head. If you make things worthwhile to people they will patronize you instead of bringing their own food/drink from home or fast food joints. The money that the race fan saves at the gate to get in will wind up at the concession stand. A race fan on a full belly that still has folding money in his pocket, is a happy race fan, and he has no reason not to keep coming back. If you do not cater to kids, your track won't make it. I don't know too many families that can afford to go to the races on a regular basis. Start the show early and on time. Have a non qualifyers feature. They are the backbone of the track. Have a race every week for them and they will be back. Pay a bonus to the guy that passes the most cars. Keep the show moving. With the super low prices at the concession stands, there is never a need for intermission; the concessions will always be busy. Junk yards are full of cars both domestic and foreign whose bodies could make great modifieds, Have a class for them with limited speed equipment and PAY THEM MORE than the present cookie cutter modifieds and they will build/come in droves. EVERYBODY YEARNS FOR YESTERYEAR, especially when it comes to racing. Seeing cookie cutter moving billboards just doesn't do it any more for me any more, and i've been a race fan for 43 years. Out of all the tracks that I have been to that could have taken Flemington's place as the mecca of racing in the east was Bridgeport Speedway, and to this day, no owner/promoter has utilized that place to the fullest yet. Flemington always had that "aura" about it, E. Windsor came close, but even 30 years ago you knew Windsor was on borrowed time with it's location. Bridegport never had that problem, Big sweeping turn track, no infield pits, parking a plenty, great track, Little to no success though. I've seen many a people show up at a track on the spur of the moment with the family and i've seen many a people turn around and leave after they saw the admission price too. Tracks that have single digit admission prices do better than tracks that have double digit prices. Here is one more for you; have the concession stand in the pits give free food to anybody with a pit pass, yes, that's right. You will have better racing on the track. A crew member will do a better job on a full belly and a driver will too. No matter what happens on or at the track, you might leave broke but you won't leave hungry. I could go on and on, but until i hit the lottery, I can't save racing, Somebody with deep pockets and the yearning for yesteryear will have to do it. john
06/27/06	Eric Dyer	I've heard this before, but it is becomming more and more true. There are body styles that could very easily be adapted into a 'retro' look, -and still be modern bodies. -Chevy has the HHR (butt ugly, but cut down, fenders off of it, and tail clipped up, you have a coach.) -Even more so with the Dodge Magnum. -It's a bit of a stretch, but the newer little Thunderbirds, (not sure if it's still in production,) as a body with the hardtop roof, could provide a decent 'coupe.' -That weird retro Chevy pickup thing, (the hellish expensive... what is it SSR? -with a bobbed tail also could go 'coupe,' ---was just thinking of this crossover of using pickups in regular classes, -because they are already mixing up the types out here in CA, (saw an smaller truck duking it out with mustangs out here at a local raceway,) ----and the 'sport Ute' idea is combining modern cars and trucks and blurring the lines nicely in current showrooms. (I have seen '34 and such pick up cabs thrown in the far back of really old MidWest Supermods, as well, looked a little weird, but very very cool too.)
06/28/06	3Wide	Old, new, somewhere in between... it really doesn't matter to me - as long as it looks like a "Something" and as long as that "Something" was actually a production car that is usable and is available cheaply. I think that's the way it had always been and that is the key. I wasn't around, but I imagine that the reason so many guys used the mid 30's Fords, Chevy's, Dodge's, Plymouth's, etc (body and frame) was because there were so many around. I think it was Bob Burd or Russ Dodge that told me that at first it was mostly all Fords because of the rule that the body, chassis and engine had to be from the same manufacture. There seemed to be an endless supply of (as Bill Singer would say: "Pre-World War II Coupes") that carried through the 60's and into the 70's. I know that a lot of guys back then would use '55 or '56 Chevy frame rails in the 60's and early 70's, but were still able to find a usable coupe or sedan body (at least from the firewall back!) to make some pretty cool stockcars. (There was a rule into the early 70's that the very front of the frame still had to be stock. I'm pretty sure that Al Michalchuk's #292 sedan (frame built new for the 1974 season) had a fabricated frame and cage (provided by #XX Mike Kostic I think) with the front kick up from a stock frame.) Not sure about California (post above from Eric), but around here, usable coupes and sedans got pretty scarce so guys looked to other usable, available bodies, that were available "cheap". While early to mid '60's Studebakers, Mustangs, Falcon's, Corvairs and a few others were used, It didn't take long for the Chevette, Pinto and of course, the Gremlin to find their new "special purpose". They were very usable (fit very well over some of the older cages that were still in use, and fit very well over the production chassis that were beginning to become popular (Profile, Tobias, etc.) ...And I'm sure there were guys who cried and complained that they were ugly, and that that those Pintos and Gremlins shouldn't be allowed to run. "Bring back the Coupes and Sedans" was heard for miles. Well, my preference is coupes and sedans too, but there's a lot of people out there that thought some of those cars from the 70's and early 80's looked pretty cool too, and had enough "personality" to add to the show. Here's where some of us will differ: I am not calling for a return of coupes and sedans, nor a specially created division with fiberglass replicas. I would however like to see the rules opened up for the "Sportsman" or what used to be called the "Limited Sportsman Division" to allow for them to use any: "American or Import steel bodied car (firewall back) available at the local junkyard." Specifically, bodies that fans old and young can relate to; bodies that have personality. Whether that be a 87 Cutlass, or a 2000 Mitsubishi Eclipse... it doesn't matter. (I'd still prefer the Cutlass, but I'd love to see it have the chance to beat that Eclipse, or Civix or whatever on my local dirt track!) I was at a recent big time drag racing event. Some of the supporting classes are stuffed with 57 Chevy's, 69 Camaros, 69 Road Runners... maybe a couple of Willys here and there... but also some newer Monte Carlo's, Regals, Malibus, Mustangs, Vette's... and even some Civics, Supras, 300z's and whatever... While I prefer the older stuff, it was all pretty cool. At the same event were tons of rear engined rail Comp cars... ok to look at, but not as much "personality" in my opinion as the door slammers. Getting back to the Gremlins, Pintos and so on... Eventually, those bodies too became scarce... but I think at the same time, the tech inspectors started to allow more and more fabricated pieces (both chassis and body) and before you knew it, you had totally fabricated "Gremlin like" bodies. Eventually, business started opening up that sold fabricated bodies.... which meant that those who once found themselves enforcing the rules at the track, now found themselves writing the rules for the upcoming season to provide to the racing community so that those making their own body could build it to meet spec, and those businesses that were building and selling "body" panels could build them in enough quantity to make it worth their time and $. (A little sarcasm here, but as far as I know, nobody ever consulted the fans on this one... Guess nobody thought it mattered.) So here it is some 25 years later and we find ourselves sitting at a racetrack, looking at totally non "stock" looking stockcars. Instead of cars that show the creativity and the individualism of each and every team, we have extremely functional, purpose built, readily available, "easier to enforce the rules" panel covered cars. Maybe that's why across the board our has seen a decline in attendance in local racing. And why those tracks that still pull a respectable crowd have to rely on good weather and a lot of flash to try to keep what fans they do have coming back. Fewer fans are pulling in to watch events that are being billed as local "Stock Car Racing." I guess it still sounds better than advertising the show as "Purpose Built, Spec Paneled Covered Racing Vehicle Racing Here Tonight!"... imagine that on the sign or in the print advertisements... - (You know, now that I think about it, is it really that much different that promoting "358's, Crate 1's, Crate 2's, Micro's, 270's... What in the hell does all that mean to anyone other than the drivers, crews and fab shop owners anyhow? Those of you who know me say that overall, I'm usually pretty optimistic about things, but when it comes to the current state, and to the future of our sport, it doesn't matter how you bill it... If both the drivers AND THE CARS don't have personality, the sport will continue to trend to a back gate driven sport, and with that, we no longer have a spectator friendly sport. For the most part, I think the drivers have done a very good job on this. I even think the crew guys and the people that letter cars have done a good job. But those who changed the rules to make things more favorable for the Fab Shops and more easier to enforce..., those who decided to take "Stock" out of "Stockcar Racing"... and those who now refuse to do anything about the situation that we all know we're in, watching our sport drift away..., have let us the past, current and more unfortunately, the future potential fans of local "Stockcar" racing down.
06/29/06	Frank Degnan	Right on, Joe! I agree with you completely. For those looking for cars that approach what is discussed here, I suggest catching a show in central PA. During the Summer of 2005, I discovered the "Silver Springs" street stocks which now race on Fridays at Susquehanna and Saturdays at Williams Grove. They are street stocks that use late model wheels and tires. The cars, at least, look great, even if their performance doesn't come close to a modified. The division is very competitive, too.
06/29/06	Jim Murrow	You may remember that a couple years ago about this, and sent you a few examples. I hav added to the list of pictures, and thought you might want to include some of these pictures in your story.I have attached the pictures here.
06/29/06	3-Wide	I think the junkyards are full of volunteers awaiting the crusher... Just how much value does the shell of a 94 Bonneville from the firewall back have anyway? (I just junked one for free that ran great and needed a transmission.) I think the key is that fans of all ages have to be able to relate to the bodies. I like coupes and sedans, but if they are not readily available, I am more than willing to sit there and watch Bonnevilles, Old's Ninety Eights, Civics,.. whatever. What we have today evolved from Stockcars, and although they are now referred to as "Modifieds" or "Sportsman", I still think at least the Sportsman Division should have stock bodies - not fabricated bodies. (Also, I really do miss seeing at least just a hint of the engine and headers... kind of like seeing a little leg... Don't need to show the whole thing... just enough to catch your interest...)
06/30/06	Barry Hulse	Well, Joe, I am obviously not the only person that has opinions about the state of short track racing today. I grew up at Wall Stadium, with the occasional "Trip to the Farm" called East Windsor. In your 5 easy pieces pics, I knew about 7 of them. Why? Cause they werent all TISSUE BOXES! I want you to do the same type of picture trivia with 5 of today's cars, block out the graphics on the bodies and see if you can get just one correct answer. I'll bet you that you won't, and if you do it will just be a lucky guess. Racing in the old days( I guess by me saying this makes me old) was fueled by a couple of things. 1) Ingenuity. There were many talented individuals that didn't have alot of money, but they could figure out on their own without buying it, how to make a car go fast. Most of today's Cup crew chiefs would be lucky to even gut a road car and make a racer out of it without buying a single prefabricated part! Throw away the scales, the custom springs and shocks, the 700 horsepower engines and have them use only stock junk yard parts and they would be lucky to have it make it one lap around the track. 2) Excitement. When I was a kid at Wall, the main division was the Modifieds. Then there were the Sportsman, the Modified knock off with restricted engines. The two divisions ran separate points races on the track at the same time. That meant that there were 30-45 cars a night in the pits COMPETING IN QUALIFYING RACES TO MAKE THE BIG SHOW! Wall now has 30-40 DIVISIONS of 10-20 cars in each. They run meaningless "qualifying heat eaces", no consi's, and then run 30-40 features each night.LOL There is nothing for the casual fan to get excited about. Plus, with the cars all looking like boxes of Kleenex with a different print for the living room, bedroom or bathroom, WHO CARES TO WATCH? Not me. I haven't been to a race since the last time the Outlaws were at NES! 3) Truly talented drivers. The local race cars of today have all the same store bought technology. Put a monkey in the seat and hang a banana on a stick and string off the roof so he can chase it (like the Biffle Subway commercial) and he'll be able to drive no worse than today's drivers. Let's put most of today's Young Guns in cars with the technological limitations of a 1965-1970 range Modified and 99% of them would be wrecking every week. The cars do all the work today, not the "Pilots". Racing started it's downward spiral in the mid to late 70's when guys like Troyer, Weld and Tobias started selling their technological secrets to anyone with the cash. Then, the final straw in the demise of local racing was for the asphalt cars, the Chevy Cavalier, and for dirt, the end of production of the Gremlin. The Cavalier was and still is a flat box. Why don't they just put the Scion SUV body on them, have the body wrap graphics to put Kleenex on the sides and hang a sheet out of the roof so the "tissue" flaps in the wind! Same as watching the tissue boxes run around playing follow the leader anyway. I love what racing was. I was a 6 year old screaming for Parker Bohn in the 659, Kremer in the 77 slantback sedan, Bobby Rosell in his orange and black 56 coach and coupe, and I waited for Danny McGlaughlin's 38 to break in half at the firewall because the coupe body was raked forward and the hood went up hill and as a kid it just seemed like it was going to break in two at any time! The cars all looked different and had INDIVIDUALLITY! Now, not even different divisions have individuallity. They all look like crap and they all produce a horrible entertainment event. NASCAR is creating the Car Of Tomorrow to take away alot of the technology from the teams. Maybe it is time for the MOY (Modifieds of Yesterday). Maybe then, the fans of yesteryear would return to the tracks!
07/01/06	Mike V	Having raced since 1980,i agree whole heartedly!Real Car Steel Bodies! I spend 4500.00 every season on fabed bodies and fiberglass roofs. Should the rules change i can go down to my buddies junk yard ,and get ten bodies free! AND the cars would all look alittle different. Someone of importance should contact DIRT with this idea.
07/01/06	3-Wide	Mike, admittedly, I'm not a fabrication guy, but would it be feasible to put a steel body on one of today's frames? Could it be done safely? I know there is concern for when the roof has to be removed to get an injured driver out... Do you think the center section of the roof should still be fiberglass? I'd love to see a change to recognizable bodies, but want to make sure that somebody out there keeps their eye on the safety aspect. I was at the Jackson Outlet Car Show last night and saw a lot of cars with personality, and also saw a lot of people who related to them. (Stories were being shared from friend to friend, brother to brother, husband to wife, father to son. about a particular car, or a particular experience that had to do with a car that at that moment was the subject of their attention. ) We see all these shows on Speed Channel like "Car Crazy" and "My Classic Car", and the "Barrett Jackson Auction." The SEMA Show, NY Auto Show and similar shows are all well attended. You see auto manufacturer's spending a ton of money of R & D and Marketing to get the word out that cars are cool once again... And you realize that there are still a lot of people "interested" in cars out there, provided the cars are "interesting"! Thanks Mike -
07/02/06	Jan Games	Joe, I have to give you a ton of credit for coming up with a GREAT idea. As to your concern for safety as to installing junkyard bodies on modern chassis', look no further than the Midstate Vintage Racing Club in NY. Most of the cars in the '70s class are '80s-90s Tobias', Kneisels, Troyers, Olsens or Bicknells with coupe, coach or pre-'76 compact bodies raced in that era installed. Guess what? These cars work fine, are safe and reportedly put on a heckuva show! There is no reason that it wouldn't work the same way using boneyard fresh modern compact bodies on basically the same. Personally, I think that an '80s-early '90s Mustang body would look great on a modified! The only changes that I would make to your plan would be to allow narrowing and shortening of bodies.. Look to Don Kreitz Sr's Valiant and Gerry's Falcon as examples of great looking, identifiable mods with altered bodies. In fact, I'd throw in a maximum body length and width rule so that no body style would have a huge advantage. I'd also pass a rule that any interior sheet metal that looks vaguely like a downforce aid would be illegal. This rule alone would FORCE everybody to learn how to really make the chassis work rather than relying on sheet aluminum aerodynamic 'crutches'. One last thing that I would do would be to throw in such huge incentives to run boneyard compact bodies...say a 400 lb weight break, bigger carb or maybe restrictions on the Barn Door bodied cars that every team would eventually want to go this go this route. We may be talking Field of Dreams stuff here, but I really believe that "If you build them, the fans WILL come"
07/02/06	3Wide	Jan, Can't really claim that it's my idea, but just something that a lot of the Visitors of the Vault have been rumbling about for a while. I know that Scott Pacich has been fighting the good fight through his "Under the Radar" column that appears in the Area Auto Racing News (AARN) as well. Also, regarding your post above, I've never been against the narrowing and shortening of bodies. My only concern is that you have a determined group of technical guys in place to enforce the "Stock Appearing" rule who fully understand the consequences of allowing things to slide. (Look at the mess we are in today!) I mentioned at one time that I think each car should have the type of car painted somewhere across the back of it so that tech inspectors would never have to say... "What is that supposed to be?". Next, in case there is a question raised by the tech guys as to whether the car looks stock, the burden of proof should have to be on the raceteam to prove (with photos of the an original matching car) that their car is in fact "Stock Appearing". Also as previously mentioned, I think that a lottery or some other system needs to be put in place to only allow so many of the same body so that we don't end up with 47 Thunderbirds, or 47 Mustangs... or 47 of any one dominant body style.... You know how it is... once somebody beats you, you feel compeled to go out and get exactly what they've got so that you can beat them! Finally, as far as incentives, again, I suggest a weight break, bigger carb, aluminum wheels, or a combination of all 3 if that's what it takes to get a few teams to dare to be different in in effort to help out sport and to BE COOL in the process! (On a side note, I think that the additional interest in the car because of it's "personality" may make it easier to secure sponsorship, especially if the thing starts running up front!)

Photo ID #	c06.26.06_044_BLO_FLM_0070L_2
Car #:	#44
Driver (s) :	Bob Lands (Thanks Rich Miller)
Location:	Flemington
Date:	1980's
Photographer:	Ace Lane Jr.
Photo provided by:	Ace Lane Jr.
Comments:	Well, here it is... some 25+ years later and we've finally found it... Less the front fenders hood and nose piece, this is what today's Sportsman cars should look like (remember... we have no pull, this is just an opinion....) A little wider roof than the sportsman of the 70's, a somewhat bigger deck area for a little rear downforce if needed... And there it is...something with an identity that goes beyond a decal proclaiming "Thunderbird" or "Monte Carlo"... A "Stock" body, as in "Stock Car" with a race car stuck underneath. Here's the formula: Find any American or Import steel bodied car (firewall back) at local junkyard - See if junkyard manger will let you have the body in exchange for a mention on the car... (throw junkyard dog a bone while there to keep on his good side in case a return trip is needed!) Filet the body Find somebody from back in 70's, 80's or even 90's who knows how to fabricate. (They'll be glad that their skills are needed once again!) Safely hang the roof, 1/4's, deck lid and doors over top of any of today's sportsman frame To make them competitive, give the teams who dared to do steps 1 - 4 above a weight break, a bigger carb or ability to run aluminum rims (or any combination of above) to offset any performance loss due to their willingness to run a steel body in an effort to improve the sport. Watch as other teams follow in above teams footsteps once they get beat a few times by somebody with a stock steel body. (If concerned that everyone will use the same type of body (as what happened to the Gremlin in the 70's) put in an incentive for those who try new body styles and/or limit the amount of any one particular body being run though a lottery.) Bring back the creativity and individualism that this sport of "Stock Car" Racing was based on Give old and new race fans something to watch that has personality... (Years ago, both the car and the driver had "personality".... with today's cars all looking alike, 1/2 of that equation has been tossed out the window... and that's just about how many fans this sport has lost as well - HALF!) Sit back and watch grandstands fill. (We'll, this last one might be wishful thinking for us old fans of yesterday, but who knows...we just might all be a little surprised... I know a few guys that would be there sitting right next to me EVERY week!) (If you have a sense of humor, click here for a few more ideas!)